‘The Five’ on Russia-Ukraine conflict – Fox News

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This is a rush transcript of “The Five” on February 22, 2022. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

JESSE WATTERS, FOX NEWS HOST: So that was Antony Blinken, Biden’s Secretary of State and the Ukrainian foreign minister together there at the State Department talking about sanctions. The Ukrainian foreign minister thanked the Americans profusely for our full diplomatic, economic, and military support of their country, and kind of hinted that there isn’t full unity within Europe.

The foreign minister said, you know, it’s one thing to condemn, but action has to follow condemnation, so there is some splits occurring between the European powers. Pete Hegseth, your reaction to what we saw there at the State Department and what you heard from President Biden this afternoon.

PETE HEGSETH, FOX NEWS HOST: Yes. A lot of words, a lot of talk about agreements, sanctions. What I saw in that briefing room was impotence and resignation. Two people resigned to whatever Vladimir Putin is deciding to do. And Antony Blinken talked about laying out the playbook. What have we done? We’ve laid it out the play book at every step of what Vladimir Putin has done except it doesn’t feel like we’ve done it as a ref or a coach or even a player. More like an observer outside of what’s happening there.

Totally resigned because the leverage we once had, which is ultimately energy and, you know, Russia supplies 10 percent of the world’s oil, a third of Europe’s oil, 60 percent of Germany’s oil. Back to Ronald Reagan, we were trying to stop pipelines from the USSR to Europe. We didn’t stop it. Donald Trump wanted to stop it so they did have that leverage. They do have those opportunities.

And so we’re just an observer at this point. And we were talking, Dana, as we were watching. Where’s the pound the table moment of we will not allow this to happen? This is a challenge between what Vladimir Putin wants to do and Xi Jinping in China, a new alliance that they have, a world that they want to replace.

And they want to undo what was a naive western foreign policy consensus for quite some time. That if you liberalize and you open up to China or to Russia and allow them to provide your energy, democracy and freedom and other benefits will flow from that. Instead, autocrats like Xi Jinping in China and Vladimir Putin in Russia have enriched themselves in the hope of making Russia great again.

And we’re kind of on the sidelines saying, we’ll do what we can, we’ll ratchet up the sanctions. Do you think Vladimir Putin is concerned at this moment about a single sheet of paper or a single sanction that we’ve talked about so far? And that’s why it all felt very impotent.

WATTERS: And the American people are concerned about the price of gas. The president mentioned that. He said, you know, there’s going to be costs jammed up onto Russia, but those costs are also going to hit the American driver. Dana, listen to this.


JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Defending freedom will have cost for us as well and here at home. We need to be honest about that. But as we will do — but as we do this, I’m going to take robust action to make sure the pain of ours sanctions is targeted at the Russian economy, not ours.


WATTERS: Well, I don’t believe that at all, but do you think he explained why we are going to be paying these costs?

DANA PERINO, FOX NEWS HOST: Well, a couple of things on this. I think the energy is the biggest story out of this and it’s just the backbone of every economy. And for so many years, we’ve been talking mostly about climate change and figuring out a way to get to electric vehicles. Great goal, but you can’t change the laws of physics and fossil fuels are so important to economies. And now we’re seeing that play out.

Russia is actually probably over dependent on oil and gas for its economy, but we are under dependent and Russia is — excuse me — Europe is a disaster. And they’ve been told since the Reagan administration “don’t make yourselves dependent.” Now —

WATTERS: What did John McCain called Russia, a gas station with nukes?

PERINO: Yes. And also what — but President Biden today is talking about that gas prices could go up, but let’s be clear; they were already up, okay. So we’ve had supply chain issues, but also there were policy decisions made by President Biden on his first day in office, amongst other things, with our canceling oil and gas leases that make us more vulnerable to these kinds of things.

And so energy is the most important thing. This is the price that countries pay when they give up energy independence. And we’re seeing that play out on the world stage. A couple of things that Blinken said that might be not a “pound the table moment,” but the last thing he said was “If Putin decides to escalate, so will we.” Okay, but then what does that mean?

Because if Putin doesn’t care about sanctions then what is the next step? Will we provide aid to any sort of insurgency? I will also point out that the foreign minister of Ukraine made it clear that the minor incursion point that President Biden made at his press conference a couple of months ago was not helpful in any way because that has also made Europe a little bit less stable.

Last thing is, something — just an instinct. I’m not saying I know President Putin. I had a chance to be in the room with him several times. He looks different to me, like this — it feels like something has changed, even with the pandemic.

I don’t know exactly what it is, but I was just reminded that President Macron of France when he met with him, he said “something in Putin has changed.” Like something, like maybe something up here, maybe something in his gut instinct, but that is kind of what we’re dealing with, is a change in his strategic direction.

WATTERS: And President Biden has said that h is going to whip Putin’s butt, Martha, he’s been saying it for years. He’s got his number. That Putin respects him. Here’s just number three of flashbacks, saying you know, there is no way Biden was ever going to back down to the guy. Listen.


BIDEN: Putin knows if I am president of the United States, his days of tyranny and trying to intimidate the United States and those in Eastern Europe are over. I’m going to stand up to him.


WATTERS: Okay. Has he stood up to him?

MARTHA MACCALUM, FOX NEWS HOST: Yes, well we’ll see how that works out. It doesn’t seem like Vladimir Putin is too concerned about that comment. And I just want to touch on what Dana was just saying because just earlier, General Kellogg was talking about this. He said this is not the man, meaning Putin, who I had several interactions with during the Trump administration. Something has changed in him.

And when you watch, I thought, a really interesting exchange between Putin and his spy chief when the spy chief stood up basically and said, you know, “yes, yes, I support what we’re doing” and he’s very flustered and Putin said “What do you mean you support what we’re doing?” He said, “I support, you know, the entry of Luhansk and Donetsk into the Russian Federation.” And he said “that’s not what we’re doing!” They’re independent. We’re declaring their independence.” Like you’re on the wrong page. And it just reminds me of the kind of scene that we’ve seen with prior dictators.

WATTERS: Just like a mobster.

MACCALLUM: When they start — yes. When they start to kind of lose it a little bit. And he’s got all these anniversaries, the 100th anniversary tomorrow of the founding of the Soviet Union. He has said that was the saddest day of Russian history. And he wants to put this empire back together.

He’s, you know, 73 years-old. How many more years does he have to really do this? And he senses that this is his moment. So there is a danger in the air with Putin and that is a very difficult thing to solve with, you know, Minsk and Normandy agreements in paper.


MACCALLUM: Because I think he hears that and goes whatever. Throw your papers up in the air. This is what I’m doing.

WATTERS: Yes. You mean, you can only do so much if this guy wants to do what he wants to do and he’s got the backing of the Russian military. Well, he has it. Let’s listen to a little bit of the president earlier. Harold Ford, Jr., and we just kind of get a sense of his tone.


BIDEN: This is the beginning of a Russian invasion of Ukraine. Who in the Lord’s name does Putin think gives him the right to declare new so-called countries on territory that belong to his neighbor’s? We still believe that Russia is poised to go much further in launching a massive military attack against Ukraine. I hope I’m wrong about that. Hope we’re wrong about that but Russia has only escalated his threat against the rest of Ukrainian territory. Russia has moved supplies and blood and medical equipment into the position on their border. You don’t need blood unless you plan on starting a war.


WATTERS: So that’s a major piece of intelligence that the United States has, to see that they’re moving blood. I can’t see why he would do that if he wasn’t going in hard.

HAROLD FORD, JR., FOX NEWS HOST: So, I don’t differ with a lot around the table, but I have a slightly different perspective one. I think the main point that’s been made here that should be noted is the point that you just made Martha that Dana made first. Something is not right about Putin here. And if indeed you want to draw the mobster or gangster analogy, normally when the head of a family demonstrates a lack of capacity like that, he or she is taken out. In our world, that’s he — men that are taken out.

So perhaps there is some internal, which I think all of our comments have speculated and implicate that maybe there is not the agreement amongst all of his deputies that he wants. Number two, there’s been no nation that has come forward to demonstrate any support for what Putin is doing. There’s no question. He thought the way he’s handled this and the way he’s projected he would handle this would cause some division within NATO.

You can listen to any commentator, any general, they all said they have not seen NATO this united. There is no doubt — listen to him the other day rewrite, revise and reimagine the end of the Cold War was one of the strangest and most fascinating history lessons that one could fictionalize about.

And he had no — even his own — the group that is supposed to be his greatest supporters, there was inertia in that room. So, I am encouraged a little by that. It was also interesting to see the Ukrainian prime minister, foreign minister, he doesn’t look like a lackey for the United States. He seems credible. He seems honest. He is relentlessly patriotic about being a Ukrainian and made clear to your points early, Jesse, to Secretary Blinken, “look, we’re with you, guys. We hope you act. All of this — the histrionics are great, but let’s act.”

I think it’s important that Blinken and the Ukrainian foreign minister continue to do these kind of press conferences. I think it sends a message to Russia, to the world, to Americans alike who I don’t think prepared to send the troops there,. And also I think the audience that’s looking that this is China.

China is not — has not said a word about this. In fact, they’ve said that they respect sovereign boundaries. We’ll see where that goes. But to see NATO fortified, strong like this, and to see us standing with Ukraine in the (inaudible) NBC —

WATTERS: No, verbally, yes.

FORD: No, but Jesse, there’s not been anything. We can say verbum and we could be critical and I’m fine with that, but he is unflinching in his support of what we’re doing to Ukrainian foreign minister is and I think Blinken and the president have made clear we’re unflinching in our support of them. I think that’s a positive right now.

WATTERS: So what happens if this thing moves into not just into Ukraine? What if Vlad goes into Poland? What if he goes into some of the Baltic NATO states? Do you think Joe Biden is going to trigger Article Five and send a massive amount of American soldiers into Eastern Europe to defend Estonia? Do you think that could happen?

HEGSETH: I actually think he would.

WATTERS: DO you think he will?

HEGSETH: I think attack on one is an attack on all and I think NATO — if there’s one thing that’s bulletproof about NATO is that belief. But I disagree slightly with what Harold said because, and you mentioned it. Talk is one thing. You can talk all you want about being united, but when you look at NATO and those NATO countries, you can’t gut your military to pay for your welfare state and open up your borders, and then believe you can muster the kind of collective will necessary to stare down a maniac who has ambitions potentially on that continent.

What is the 82nd Airborne is doing right now in Poland as they prepare? They’re setting up processing centers for refugees.

WATTERS: Oh boy.

HEGSETH: That’s what our soldiers and border patrol agents do best these days with the nations.


HEGSETH: They help facilitate refugees. I don’t think that Vladimir Putin believes his adversaries are fundamentally serious right now. He doesn’t believe the west is a serious civilization. We’re running around talking about genders and reparations and all of this. He sees us divided. He sees us as self-loathing.

And as a result, he thinks this is his moment to make an aggressive move because we may talk about Article Five and we should. But would the American truly support sending our boys halfway across the world —

WATTERS: Good question.

HEGSETH: — to fight against Vladimir Putin? I think the elites would want us to do so, the population in America would probably see it quite differently.

FORD: Do you think those oligarchs who some of that financing coming in their way, some of what we’re doing, you think they’re going to call him? I think they are — look, we can’t have it every which way and I know that we don’t like, some around the table don’t like Biden, don’t like Democrats and that’s fine. But one thing is clear. He does not have the support I think Putin of everyone he wants in Russia on that. He does not have the — and at the end of the day, we can — I agree with you in this regard.

We are not going to take him out with our military. It’s going to be an internal thing that weakens him. And I think he’s weakened by that. Those troops on — you served. Can you imagine being in one of those bunkers right now, one of the 190,000 troops in that — in that cold waiting for them to tell you’re going to go and perhaps kill Russians and Ukraine?

I think this is a far more nuanced and complicated thing. And I understand our politics here. But I got to tell you, I’m rooting for the President. I know we all are, but I’m rooting for him in a big way. And I’m rooting for Blinken as well in these — in these conversations and showdowns.

WATTERS: All right. Dana, would you like to say anything before we go to break.

PERINO: We wrap it up? I want — the other piece of news was that the foreign minister of Russia, Lavrov, was supposed to have a meeting with Blinken on Thursday. That is off because Blinken said he would only meet if there was not an invasion.

Now, at 8:30 a.m. this morning, it was only an incursion, but the administration at 9:02 a.m. finally said it was an invasion. So, that meeting is off.

WATTERS: OK. I mean, it is — it is interesting how we’ve kind of moved the language, Martha, at first to stay and it said it changed. It got more — got more intense, and then so did the sanctions. Last night, we had a certain set of sanctions just on the eastern region. Then, we went a higher step.

You heard the foreign minister say he expects a lot more sanctions to keep getting piled on and not give Putin a sense of OK, this is as far as we’re going to go.

MACCALLUM: I think the language of minor incursion that the President is a couple of weeks ago was a big mistake, because he lost the ability last night to say that and to allow it to be true, right? So, in this essence, last night — once he has he said that, any invasion had to be called an invasion or who would have looked weak.


MACCALLUM: So, that got corrected within an hour this morning. That wiggle room was eaten up by dropping that phrase when he did.

PERINO: Can I ask Martha a question about —

WATTERS: Please.

PERINO: Just thinking about this on my way here, knowing that you would be here today, because you have such a close relationship with many of the World War II veterans. And you’ve you had a chance to interview them. And obviously, the Cold War was different than World War II, but it was an outgrowth of it.

And you read Gerard Baker today in The Wall Street Journal, who said, you know, we won the Cold War, but we then lost it as the West because we didn’t focus. And I wonder if you have any insight as to how people are feeling.

MACCALLUM: You know, actually, it’s funny because I think about, you know, your experience, because it’s something that I think a lot of Americans don’t think a lot about. And that is the creation of all of those NATO countries after the Cold War, right, after the fall of the Soviet Union, when they were so weak to then build up that bolster of NATO nations right on their border that really aggravated them, right?

So, was that the best move at that point? It’s almost like post World War II, you know, how much do you beat up Germany at that point. You want them to become a democracy that can thrive after it’s all over. And I think that’s something that historically we have to look back at and say was that a mistake or not to incorporate all those NATO nations right on their border, right, when they were at their weakest?

WATTERS: Do you think there ever will be any accountability, obviously, expanding NATO year after year right to Russia’s doorstep, but also making the Ukrainians give their nukes back in the early 90s? Are we ever going to get any accountability for, you know, the world community as the foreign minister said from Ukraine.

You know, we said yes, we’ll give these back but we expect you to get it — get our back if we ever get invaded, and they’ve been invaded twice.


WATTERS: And we have not — and the world has not supported them the way they believe they would be supported.

HEGSETH: Yet another lesson that unilateral disarmament, not very effective —


HEGSETH: — when you’re surrounded by people who’d like to take your land. And there’s a litany of other examples where that’s the case. You mentioned Libya, obviously. So, when you’re staring — when you’re staring down the barrel — you talk about a guy in a trench, and what are they thinking about?

I guess I’d be thinking about — well, it depends on what trench you’re in, and what part of Ukraine because there’s a lot of different —

FORD JR.: Second biggest country on the — on the continent.

HEGSETH: Huge country with a huge amount of resources and a lot of leverage because of where the pipelines currently go. I mean, every other pipeline that Russia supplies fuel to Europe goes through Ukraine or Belarus. And Russia effectively controls Belarus at this point.

So, Nord Stream 1, which operates right now, is operational, bypasses all of that, and so does so with Nord Stream 2 which we shut off. I would want to — I would want to hope that the world’s leaders, especially the United States, whether we take military action or not, listen that when an ambitious man says he’s going to do something, that we take it seriously.

It may sound like the musings of someone who wants to reestablish Russia, but he’s 73-years-old. What is his mental state? I don’t know. But I know he admires Vladimir Lenin. I know he admires the legacy of the Soviet Union. And we’d like to see himself on that same pedestal. And we’ll go as far as he needs to make that happen.

PERINO: I would maybe mention one thing about NATO to something that I learned over the years of being there, which is that in history, it shows like democracies usually don’t declare war on each other. And there’s a desire from people who are born free.

Like, if we all believe that you were born with the inherent belief that you could you are free individuals, then you want to have self- determination. So, that’s why there was this — all this fight against communism and socialism because the countries recognize that the path to making sure that their citizens have opportunities and freedom and free will, that was through democracies. And so, NATO would provide you that protection.

So, that’s why there was a push. And I think I admire countries that really wanted to join NATO because —

WATTERS: Did they apply?

PERINO: — they wanted to be a part of it. Why did Ukraine want so badly to be a part of it? One, they want their own self-determination. There — it’s a young country now. A lot of the people that live there did not live under Russian rule. They don’t remember that. They don’t want to go back to that necessary. And that’s why you see the attempts to fight.

There’s not — I didn’t hear a lot of talk today from — in all the words that were spoken, the word freedom. I mean, is that what we’re talking about here? And to me, that makes — it makes a really big difference? It doesn’t mean that your fights are fought for you by other people necessarily. But can you be a part of the free world? In my opinion, I think we should fight for that in whatever ways we can.

The one thing we have not mentioned, and this is a concern, and I think the administration doing pretty well on this so far, hopefully, which is Putin’s capabilities of wreaking havoc on the world in regards to cyberattacks. So, our water supply and that of Ukraine and the Europeans, your energy supply, your food supply, your ability to do banking transactions, your ability to just Google whatever you want. That is on the line here.

WATTERS: Well, that goes to your point about the freedom argument. Has the President look the American people, Harold Ford Jr,. directly in the eye and said, this is what we’re doing in Eastern Europe, this is why we’re doing it, and this is what could happen because we’re doing it. He kind of flirted with it with the gas prices and says, oh, I have a plan.

Well, he said he’s had a plan before, and he didn’t have a plan or the plan didn’t work. So, I don’t know if we trust that. You had cyber — you saw the market down like 600 points earlier this afternoon. If you have a couple of months of market like that, and gas goes to $4, and maybe they hit what the hit Colonial last time, we could go a tit for tat with cyber and sanctions, you’re coming out of a pandemic where people are just getting their head above water. I don’t know if this country is ready mentally, financially for something like that. Are we ready?

FORD JR.: I hope so. Look, you don’t get an opportunity to — during the lead-up to war to really prepare as much as you want. I think Don Rumsfeld got criticized for saying you go to war with arm you have, not the arm you want.


PERINO: But it’s also true.

WATTERS: It is true. There’s known, there’s unknowns, and there’s unknown.

FORD JR.: So, you know that the administration, to their credit, have tried to — try to warn big companies and small companies alike about how not to defend against a cyber tech. But what’s your continuity plan? We should anticipate we’re going to have some reaction from this. And they should understand that we will be offensive as well. And I think the President’s made clear.

I definitely — I agree with Dana on this NATO thing. I hope — I mean, there’s has a whole history behind this. And we can — perhaps the giving up of the weapons of Ukraine is maybe something we should look back at. But in terms of joining NATO, I’m glad all of those nations did. And I think President Reagan had it best when he said there is no security or no safety in the appeasement of evil.

And I think this President, our president is doing everything he possibly can short of sending troops. And I think Pete has a greater perspective on this than I do, and perhaps most around the table. But this president, I think, is using every tool and playing every card. It was not a great hand, but I think he’s playing it as well as he possibly can.

PERINO: I think that we should mention President Trump and NATO, actually. Because even though he was criticized for saying, oh, NATO is made — like, make — kind of poking at NATO. But what he did is he made NATO sit up and take notice. And a lot of those countries did start to pay more of their contributions into NATO.

And I understand that the Biden ministration wants to say that NATO has never been more united. Again, I don’t know that because of the energy issue. But President Trump, I think, deserves a lot of credit for making sure that NATO was one on the radar, but that also that everyone that was in NATO was put on notice that if you want to be a part of this, if it’s all for one on one for all, then that means that you have to be fulfilling your commitments. President Trump made that happen.

WATTERS: And he put Germany on notice too. He said, you’re getting all your energy from Russia. And we’re paying to defend you from Russia.

PERINO: Right.

WATTERS: That doesn’t make a lot of sense. Here’s the President today talking about what he’s doing in terms of deployment strategically and defensively with some of our NATO allies. Watch.


JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Today, in response to Russians admission that it will not withdraw its forces from Belarus, I have authorized additional movements of U.S. forces and equipment already stationed in Europe to strengthen our Baltic Allies, Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania.

Let me be clear, these are totally defensive moves on our part. We have no intention of fighting Russia. We want to send an unmistakable message though that the United States together with our allies will defend every inch of NATO territory and abide by the commitments we made to NATO.


WATTERS: So, Martha, when he says that, is he saying that for domestic consumption? Like, you know, I’m not going to drag us into a war. Is he telling Putin, listen, we’re not trying to start a war in Eastern Europe. Who is he talking to?

MACCALLUM: Well, I think that, you know, echoes of Afghanistan are still ringing in his ears. He just pulled out of one war. He doesn’t want to look at the American people say, you know, I might be bringing you into another.

But there’s only one reason to ramp up your presence in the NATO countries. And that’s if you think that there’s a chance that Putin might actually go into one of them. And so, at that point, given everything that we’ve said here about NATO and Article Five, that’s the moment when the President needs to say, make no mistake, we are ironclad on Article Five. Don’t even think about an encroachment in any of these countries, right?

I mean, that that would be the moment when you would if you are, you know, ascribing to Article Five, then that’s when you have to stand up and say so.

FORD JR.: I think that’s what he said, though, I think.

HEGSETH: I think he’s trying to speak to Putin. But the only message Putin is going to get is he’s going to use it as a rationale to go further. Look, the NATO countries are surrounding me, they’re going on the offensive. He’ll use it for internal propaganda.

WATTERS: It’s true. It’s true.

MACCALLUM: But he’s clearly saying we’re not going boots on the ground in Ukraine. And you know, this — we’re completely defensive. There’s going to be no offense in these countries.

PERINO: He says — he says — I mean, it’s amazing to me that an American president says, we are just purely defensive here. Like, why is that? I don’t understand why we waited on the sanctions. I feel like — I understand that you thought it would be a deterrent against it. But he had already escalated so much, he should have been sanctioned earlier.

WATTERS: Yes. And that’s what the Ukrainian foreign minister said right there too. All right, we’re going to monitor this breaking news out of Ukraine and keep you posted. But up next, we just lost a member of THE FIVE family. And we’re going to be paying tribute to Bob Beckel.


PERINO: Welcome back. We have some very sad news to share. Bob Beckel, one of our former co–hosts on THE FIVE has passed away. He was 73. Bob was one of a kind, a political legend, and a great friend to many of us at Fox and at this table. We will miss him dearly. Here’s a look back at some of his most memorable moments on THE FIVE.



GREG GUTFELD, FOX NEWS CHANNEL HOST: You can hear me. I know you can.

PERINO: We’re going to try and lure Bob —

GUTFELD: Go to your room, Bob.

BECKEL: All right, are you kidding me?

Are you kidding me?

PERINO: Are you kidding me?

BECKEL: This is the last time I’m ever going to talk about Benghazi. I’ll never talk about it. And I hope every other patriotic American joins with – –

PERINO: Oh, please.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think I’d love to hear that.

BECKEL: You can’t make all liberals the same way on everything. We’re not.

GUTFELD: But you are.

BECKEL: No you’re not. You wackos are all the same.

GUTFELD: See, the thing is, I call you a liberal, you call me a wacko.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bob has gotten much nicer over the last month or two.

BECKEL: That’s because your lawyer threatened to sue me, John.

The book just gave me a sentence to write my own book. And here it is. If you to look at this, it’s called The Hate of Joy.

GUTFELD: When I’m in a hurry and I want my Twinkie, I will drink my Twinkie or drinkie.

PERINO: Bob just pound it.

GUTFELD: Bob just drank the whole thing.

BECKEL: Now, that was brilliant on your part.

If they don’t hit me on the first throw, they’re whooshes, they’re uncoordinated, they’re unathletic, and of course they’re Republicans.

Oh, another one. Oh, we missed it again. Oh, no.

Straight ahead — are we still on the air? This is the end of an era. (INAUDIBLE) and wonder boogers —

GUTFELD: Wonder boogers?

BECKEL: I bought enough Christmas tree lights to wire Manhattan.

This display is for all the kids in Brookmont which run neighborhood, from the big kid who lives here.

It’s already 5:00. (INAUDIBLE).

Every time I swear, I got to put money.

You know, this Bob’s swear jar. Today, it’s going to be big 20 bucks going in.

You think about a day, and the course of a day, some kids giving you a good smile, you — somebody’s letting you line, something good has happened to you. Those are states of bad day.


PERINO: Well, our team did an amazing job putting that together. There’s so much that happened. And Greg is joining us from Texas to help us remember Bob. Greg, I don’t think you can see but I have this swear — they have the swear jar. We still have it. It’s filled with a lot of money. There’s a $1.00 and a lot of pennies in here, Greg.

GUTFELD: Yes. The irony of it is you actually swore more than him.

PERINO: I know.

GUTFELD: It’s great to see that — it’s great to see those clips because the one thing that was so interesting about Bob is that he was never going to tell you that he was in shape or in good health. But for somebody who wasn’t in shape or in good health, he had more energy than anybody I knew.

Like, he was non-stop even with his pretty bad diet and, you know, his other things. But he couldn’t really — I mean, he — and what you saw is what you got. He really was made for television. You felt like you knew him.

I brought a clip to this because there was a time when I had him on Red Eye with his brother, Graham Beckel who’s a tremendous actor, was in LA Confidential. And to see those two interact as brothers gave you an insight into what Bob was like as a family member. And I think we haven’t, don’t we?


BECKEL: I listen to this crap all the time. I mean —

You’re an actor and you had food stamps. Right?

GRAHAM BECKEL, ACTOR: Oh, screw you all.

BECKEL: That’s on your blood stream.

G. BECKEL: No, man. That’s like so inappropriate.

BECKEL: I’m inappropriate?

G. BECKEL: Yes, you’re inappropriate.

BECKEL: And that’s inappropriate?

You won’t stop, would you?

G. BECKEL: Yes, I was. I went to commit a homicide.

BECKEL: The one of the people follow that tape, that’s a cult movie. Can you imagine those movies together? They’d probably be the wedding party for Charles Manson.


WATTERS: Oh, that’s great.

GUTFELD: Yes. Oh, man. There’s so many memories.

PERINO: There’s so many, Greg.

GUTFELD: And it’s — we all knew — we all knew this day was going to happen. He was going to get there first. But man, he packed in a lot of life.

PERINO: He was a complex character. You know, he and I, when THE FIVE started in July of 2011, he and I still lived in D.C. So, we would be on the train back and forth with each other. And when — he was a brilliant political mind. You ask him anything about politics that happened in the 70s and 80s, he’ll tell you exactly what was happening.

He had really good instincts on the trends that were going to take place. He used to scare all of us when he would scream “ONE MORE THING” is up next. He said he hated dogs, but he loved Jasper. He called him his nephew. And I will never forget, one time we went to do “HANNITY” show in Atlanta, and he faked having a heart attack while we were live on air. Allison, you were there, the stage manager.


PERINO: And he faked — and I thought he was really having a heart attack. And I was panicking. And it was a joke that he played on me, which was one thing. Let’s take around the table a little bit quickly here, Greg. Jesse, you and Bob had an interesting relationship.

WATTERS: I’ve never been given the finger by a nicer guy. He — I didn’t have a long overlap with him like you guys obviously did. But what a great dude, what great stories. We’d like to always say, you know, some of the best times on THE FIVE or in the commercial breaks, and Bob in the commercial break was worse than Gutfeld. And we will miss him and we love him and always remember him.

PERINO: Martha, you must have known Bob quite well.

MACCALLUM: Yes. I mean, Bob was just a great guy. And as you say, he was just a wealth of information. He loved what we do. He loved politics. He loved talking about it. He loved arguing about it. And I used to love — he used to sit on a chair outside the — by the studio out there. And he would just like sit out there on a nice day, all day long. You come by and just strike up a conversation with you. And we will miss him. What a great contribution he did to all of us.

PERINO: Harold, did you know Bob?

FORD JR.: I knew him — I knew more isn’t a Democratic operative. But I watched him on the show as well. And the great thing about — a lot of great things, and everything is — everybody said a lot of wonderful things about him. He had a strong point of view. He was a good loyal Democrat. But he loved the debate. He loved an open, fair debate.

He’d give as good as he took. And then Jesse’s told me — Jesse and I have had conversations not about Bob, but just about life, he didn’t take things personally, it never — it never seen so —

PERINO: He had — he was a faithful person. Pete, I’ll give you a quick word. And I will give one — last one to Greg. But he was a faithful person. He was a man who battled addiction. And he was willing to talk about that. And he would spend — he got called at 2:00 in the morning to go help somebody who was maybe about to fall off the wagon.

HEGSETH: I can only come at it as a viewer. But in that sense, it’s fun, always enjoyable watching somebody who’s comfortable in their own skin. He clearly he has a good soul. And as a viewer, you know, he’s a guy you actually did love to hate. You know what I mean?

PERINO: Yes. And remember, Greg, everybody would say to us, we think Bob is coming around. We think Bob is going to become conservative.


PERINO: Last word to you, Greg.

GUTFELD: And — yes, you know, he wrote a column I guest every week for years with Cal Thomas. And you couldn’t find a more conservative person. And I think that was the real secret to Bob’s happiness was his ability to see people as people and not as political entities. And we somehow lost sight of that in the last couple of decades I guess.

PERINO: Yes. We learned a lot from him, so cheers to you, Bob. It’s heavy. Swear jar. Thanks, Greg. “ONE MORE THING” is up next.


WATTERS: It’s time for “ONE MORE THING.” I have my Feeding Frenzy. So, let’s start that right away. So, I hope everybody has an appetite and probably an insulin shot because Krispy Kreme donuts is expanding and as a new flavor. They’re partnering with Twix candy bar.

So, they have some new flavors. Caramel Cookie Crunch Bar donut. That’s a lot. Caramel Cookie Crunch original filled donut and a mini caramel cookie donut. And the Caramel Cookie Crunch Bar is a bar-shaped donut filled with Krispy Kreme’s cream filling in a full-size Twix cookie bar. Zero calories.

PERINO: How many of those are you going to eat before “PRIMETIME?”

WATTERS: I’m going to — I’m going to try one of these and I’m going to be off the wall at 7:00.

MACCALLUM: Isn’t a bar-shaped donut an eclair or something?

PERINO: Do you know that Bob Beckel would have loved this segment so much? We would have eaten all those.


PERINO: Yes, for Bob, absolutely. Well, I television reporter has been getting a lot of attention. It shows him reporting from Ukraine in six different languages. Check him out.




PERINO: I think he’s amazing. His name is Philip Crowther. He tweeted the montage of him speaking English, Luxembourgish, which I didn’t even know existed, Spanish, Portuguese, French, and German. More than seven people viewed it and somebody asked is this man married? I mean, I’m married too.

MACCALLUM: Women from all different countries wanted to know.

PERINO: Yes, yes.

WATTERS: When you speak to a woman in Luxembourgish.

PERINO: He just can’t help himself.

WATTERS: Harold?

FORD JR.: I’m going to — I’m going to write that.

WATTERS: Yes, write that one down. Actually, you know what, don’t write that down, Harold.

FORD JR.: It’s a big day for women in sports and hopefully every other sector. Announced today that the U.S. women’s soccer team reached an agreement with the U.S. Soccer Federation to settle a six-year disagreement around equal pay for U.S. women’s soccer players. The U.S. Soccer decided to pay a total of $24 million and provide — promised equal pay with the men’s team going forward.

Thank you — thank you to this team and these brave young women for paving the way for my daughter and a lot of — a lot of the young girls around America. Congratulations.

WATTERS: All right, Pete.

HEGSETH: I want to share a bucket list item. I was at the Daytona 500 hosting “FOX AND FRIENDS WEEKEND.” I’ve always wanted to drive a NASCAR on a NASCAR track. Thanks to the NASCAR racing experience, I did it. All you have to do is show your license, watch a video for 25 minutes, and then they strap you into a car. Very few people get above 150 miles an hour. By myself, I got to 155 miles an hour around the Daytona International Speedway by myself. I’ve never been so scared since combat.

WATTERS: Let’s go, Pete.

MACCALLUM: I can see you’re scared.

FORD JR.: I saw him. You said you were scared too.

WATTERS: All right, Martha.

MACCALLUM: Michael Ferrara is a New Jersey teenager from my home state. He’s going to do a 50-mile Pistol Creek Ultra Marathon for Vet Rest which is a mentoring program for veterans. And congratulations to him. He’s been training all winter in the freezing cold. His water bottle freezes.

PERINO: I look forward to him being on “THE STORY.”

MACCALLUM: He — and he’s also going to join the Marines.

FORD JR.: Hear, hear.

WATTERS: Don’t eat any donuts before the race, OK. Maybe after. “SPECIAL REPORT” is up next with Bret.

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